I had the privilege this weekend of worshiping, at several churches, with older folks who may not be long for this world. And let's face it, I may appear to many be in that category to many younger people.
God usually speaks to me, fairly reliably, each morning as I rise. Tonight He came to me as I think I was sleeping, with an interesting acronym, GOD- Go Out Dancing.
As I write, I am listening to a beautiful song, Dance with Me, as performed by Jesus Culture. It is the sort of worship song that easily spans all generations.
As in all of life, we each stand continually at a crossroads, or even, at the cross. We have choices to make in the short term, even as we may know that all of our choices lead to His choice, eternal life in Him.
The most important choice every day is to Go Out Dancing or go out dying. Jesus is the lover of our soul, and everything else of us.
Give Him your life, every bit of it, and Go Out Dancing! He has His eye on you, and has invited you to His glorious dance, which can begin today and never end.
Your day will soon come when you can't take it with you, so the choice to lay it all at His feet is made that much easier. Let go of everything, power, possessions, and people. Allow your spirit to abide in His Holy Spirit. This is the dance of eternity.
Because when you give everything to Him, He gives everything right back to you. You will have the mind of Christ and then not have choices, your desires will be of Him, and He will guide you in all things. His love will permeate all that you are, He will show you how to truly love all those around you.
For the second coming of Christ is not in the air, it is in you!
I have just now discovered the most important thing you will ever read, please read it carefully, it is full of the Word of God and Truth.
Monday, January 23, 2017
Sunday, January 22, 2017
Hope Community Fellowship The Colony, TX 1/21/17 9:45 and 11:00 40 people
I went to this small shopping center church because it is part of Grace Communion International, a miracle denomination that is the remnant of Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God. The entire denomination converted from essentially a cult to orthodoxy a few years back. Their story has been feted by noted heresy hunter, Hank Hanegraaff, in his book, Transformed by Truth.
I sometimes attend a GCI congregation in Colorado and have great love for it's pastor, people, and theology.
In a church world dominated by the abhorrent theology of penal substitutionary atonement, Grace Communion International stands, along with Orthodox churches, by the theology of the early church, Incarnational Trinitarian Theology, the theology of the Nicene Creed.
Penal substitutionary atonement is a relative newcomer, having come out of the Reformation about 500 years ago, championed then by Calvin and in later days by such as J.L. Packer and now Billy Graham and the Southern Baptist Convention. I recently attended an otherwise wonderful SBC church where the otherwise intelligent young pastor proclaimed that penal substitutionary atonement was THE thing that "this church was founded on". I hope Jesus wasn't listening, but I know he was, and likely wept.
So they had an adult education class beginning at 9:45, that I attended along with 10-12 other mostly older adults, who were very welcoming of me. Pastor Steve was at the whiteboard and they were going through some sort of workbook. I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that the spiritual condition of the participants was generally far beyond the material in the workbook.
I contributed probably more than I should have as a first time visitor, as I was intent at stripping away at the complications of the workbook material and putting all into the terms of the fundamental love that is in Jesus.
After the class, perhaps 30 others joined us for the main service at 11:00. The worship music was a bit puzzling to me as the newest song, based on the title credits, was from 1999. It seems to me that if you want to attract a younger crowd, as is desperately needed in an aging church like this, you would do well to at least integrate some contemporary worship songs, which are often better than old ones since there is so much competition in that area now.
Even more disturbing is that at least three of the six songs used had lines in them referencing penal substitutionary atonement. I would hope that a GCI church would be careful to excise all such songs from their playlist.
Their were two "trinity" banners on the wall, so I'm sure I was in the right place. And Pastor Steve's sermon was also clearly trinitarian, about the importance of listening to God.
Once again, my perception could be off, but I felt he was asking a lot of mature Christians to listen more for God. My sense was that these mature believers are already listening to God pretty well, that is why I'm calling them mature believers.
He seemed to me to be teaching what they already know, well. They might be better served with more challenging fare, perhaps how they can continue to grow in Christ even as most are at an age where their bodies may be shrinking instead of growing. They all impressed me, including Pastor Steve, as lovely and sincere Christ followers.
Based on what I have now seen at two GCI churches, the GCI denominational leadership or individual churches must embark on their own listening to God adventure, to allow Him to guide them in solving their aging out demographic problem.
My suggestion is that they start asking their well grounded older couples to start or start participating in neighborhood house churches, where they can act as spiritual fathers and mothers to the much younger people generally found in that movement. Let them be ambassadors for the truth, that Jesus did not come to die for our sins, but to show us that we can live, in Him, without sin, after His sanctification in us.
I sometimes attend a GCI congregation in Colorado and have great love for it's pastor, people, and theology.
In a church world dominated by the abhorrent theology of penal substitutionary atonement, Grace Communion International stands, along with Orthodox churches, by the theology of the early church, Incarnational Trinitarian Theology, the theology of the Nicene Creed.
Penal substitutionary atonement is a relative newcomer, having come out of the Reformation about 500 years ago, championed then by Calvin and in later days by such as J.L. Packer and now Billy Graham and the Southern Baptist Convention. I recently attended an otherwise wonderful SBC church where the otherwise intelligent young pastor proclaimed that penal substitutionary atonement was THE thing that "this church was founded on". I hope Jesus wasn't listening, but I know he was, and likely wept.
So they had an adult education class beginning at 9:45, that I attended along with 10-12 other mostly older adults, who were very welcoming of me. Pastor Steve was at the whiteboard and they were going through some sort of workbook. I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that the spiritual condition of the participants was generally far beyond the material in the workbook.
I contributed probably more than I should have as a first time visitor, as I was intent at stripping away at the complications of the workbook material and putting all into the terms of the fundamental love that is in Jesus.
After the class, perhaps 30 others joined us for the main service at 11:00. The worship music was a bit puzzling to me as the newest song, based on the title credits, was from 1999. It seems to me that if you want to attract a younger crowd, as is desperately needed in an aging church like this, you would do well to at least integrate some contemporary worship songs, which are often better than old ones since there is so much competition in that area now.
Even more disturbing is that at least three of the six songs used had lines in them referencing penal substitutionary atonement. I would hope that a GCI church would be careful to excise all such songs from their playlist.
Their were two "trinity" banners on the wall, so I'm sure I was in the right place. And Pastor Steve's sermon was also clearly trinitarian, about the importance of listening to God.
Once again, my perception could be off, but I felt he was asking a lot of mature Christians to listen more for God. My sense was that these mature believers are already listening to God pretty well, that is why I'm calling them mature believers.
He seemed to me to be teaching what they already know, well. They might be better served with more challenging fare, perhaps how they can continue to grow in Christ even as most are at an age where their bodies may be shrinking instead of growing. They all impressed me, including Pastor Steve, as lovely and sincere Christ followers.
Based on what I have now seen at two GCI churches, the GCI denominational leadership or individual churches must embark on their own listening to God adventure, to allow Him to guide them in solving their aging out demographic problem.
My suggestion is that they start asking their well grounded older couples to start or start participating in neighborhood house churches, where they can act as spiritual fathers and mothers to the much younger people generally found in that movement. Let them be ambassadors for the truth, that Jesus did not come to die for our sins, but to show us that we can live, in Him, without sin, after His sanctification in us.
Baruch Hashem Dallas, TX 1/21/17 10:40 am 600 people
Worship at Baruch Hashem is a bit of heaven for me.
This is only my fourth time ever, but every time is magnificent. Here, we worship together as people who are "double chosen", chosen as natural sons of Israel and chosen again by the King of Kings, Yeshua.
There is music and dancing, with most lyrics in Hebrew. Even though my Hebrew is limited, I learn more every time I go as they display the lyrics in Hebrew and English and phonetically. The sanctuary is stunningly beautiful and the chairs are first rate and comfortable.
The women and children and some men form a dance line that circles the front half of the sanctuary for the extended period of worship. It is so wonderful to see the families together and even the smallest of children worshiping.
As worship wound down, Senior Rabbi Marty Waldman went to the podium and read Psalm 111. You have never really heard scripture read until you have heard him read. He goes at exactly the right pace and puts exactly the right amount of loving care into each syllable.
I have only briefly met him, as when I was there a few months ago I had just written on a web site about the unique blessing that I had of being in a mental hospital after an overwhelming God encounter. The sermon that day was on a pretty obscure story in Psalm 34 about David and his unique blessing of hiding as a supposed crazy person among the Philistines. I stayed for a few minutes and asked him to read what was on the web site and hopefully understand how it miraculously corresponded to the sermon that was just preached by his son, Rabbi Ari Waldman.
Rabbi Ari has a similar beautiful cadence and tone when reading scripture and preaching as his father. I sure wish other churches would catch on to how this adds so much richness to a worship service- making every word worship.
The sermon on this day was preached by Rabbi Daniel Juster. It was fairly unremarkable but my understanding is that he is a major figure in the rise of Messianic Judaism, which has just lately become such a huge blessing on my life.
One thing he did say was, "We are living in eschatological times." and that is certainly my testimony as well. I'm not sure but I feel like I've experienced the rapture, the second coming of Christ in me, and being born again from above simultaneously in one blessed event a few months ago. Everything has changed and all in Christ is so beautiful!
This is only my fourth time ever, but every time is magnificent. Here, we worship together as people who are "double chosen", chosen as natural sons of Israel and chosen again by the King of Kings, Yeshua.
There is music and dancing, with most lyrics in Hebrew. Even though my Hebrew is limited, I learn more every time I go as they display the lyrics in Hebrew and English and phonetically. The sanctuary is stunningly beautiful and the chairs are first rate and comfortable.
The women and children and some men form a dance line that circles the front half of the sanctuary for the extended period of worship. It is so wonderful to see the families together and even the smallest of children worshiping.
As worship wound down, Senior Rabbi Marty Waldman went to the podium and read Psalm 111. You have never really heard scripture read until you have heard him read. He goes at exactly the right pace and puts exactly the right amount of loving care into each syllable.
I have only briefly met him, as when I was there a few months ago I had just written on a web site about the unique blessing that I had of being in a mental hospital after an overwhelming God encounter. The sermon that day was on a pretty obscure story in Psalm 34 about David and his unique blessing of hiding as a supposed crazy person among the Philistines. I stayed for a few minutes and asked him to read what was on the web site and hopefully understand how it miraculously corresponded to the sermon that was just preached by his son, Rabbi Ari Waldman.
Rabbi Ari has a similar beautiful cadence and tone when reading scripture and preaching as his father. I sure wish other churches would catch on to how this adds so much richness to a worship service- making every word worship.
The sermon on this day was preached by Rabbi Daniel Juster. It was fairly unremarkable but my understanding is that he is a major figure in the rise of Messianic Judaism, which has just lately become such a huge blessing on my life.
One thing he did say was, "We are living in eschatological times." and that is certainly my testimony as well. I'm not sure but I feel like I've experienced the rapture, the second coming of Christ in me, and being born again from above simultaneously in one blessed event a few months ago. Everything has changed and all in Christ is so beautiful!
Gateway Church Southlake, TX 1/21/17 4:00 pm 3000 people
There were perhaps 3,000 in attendance for this Saturday afternoon service. Mark Harris, a multi Dove award winner with the group 4Him and also a Grammy nominee, led their 4 song opening worship set in front of a group of 12 other musicians from their incredible stage at their huge and modern purpose built facility.
As is often the case, my nemesis, penal substitutionary atonement, made an early entrance, both in the words of John Spurling who officiated during the mid songs break for communion and in a song written by Cody Carnes, Final Word. That song has a line, "He traded death for life", when in fact He was incarnated for atonement, that we could be in unity with Him, and He in us, since He has shared in our lives in all ways, including suffering and dying the most horrible death.
Pastor Robert Morris appeared briefly on video from an Inaugural Ball in the DC area, as yesterday Donald Trump was sworn in as President. In his place, his son, Campus Pastor Josh Morris took his place, delivering the final sermon in their Created to Be series, which was marketed not only in print but by large "Be" statue type things outside the entrance doors.
I'm not sure who wrote it but the sermon was great and the delivery exceptional. Josh seems at least the equal of his dad at delivering a sermon. One point made was that repent means to change our mind. I wonder if he said what I heard, which is very literally to change our mind from our born with mind of sin and death to the mind of Christ, which we get when we are truly born from above into Him.
The three sermon points were ways to partner with God by Prayer, Giving, and Serving. All accurate points and some great illustrations, one from a favorite of mine, NT Wright.
There were two very interesting side notes. Pastor Josh explained, with a bit of a disclaimer, that the word eternal in the Bible really means ages and ages, something that my friends in the Ultimate Restoration camp have long advocated. And he mentioned that "Jesus says no one is good, but God", which occurred to me is a New Testament verse in support of the 8th day formation of Adam and Eve, which puts them outside of God's 7th day proclamation that all created before that day was very good.
If there was any error in the sermon, it was a reference to the holiest prayer of Israel, the Shema. Twice Pastor Josh said it "was" rather than it is, as it is still the key prayer in even Messianic worship, which itself is held under Pastor Greg Stone at Gateway Church, I have attended many times in the past, that is a first Friday of the month event.
Not being a single parent so unaware, I positively loved and was about brought to tears when Pastor Josh described how the single parent Christmas party gift giving is done. While the parents are out shopping with their church provided gift cards, the children are at the church selecting gifts for their parents. This sort of innovative ministry keeps my heart warm for the modern megachurch.
I wish the serving portion of the sermon had included more about ways we can serve one another that don't necessarily go through the apparatus of the volunteer ministries of Gateway Church. It began to sound too much like a sales job.
Overall though, Gateway Church is as solid a favorite as any church believing in penal substitutionary atonement can be. I don't know who, possibly several or many, in the church is operating with the true power of God, but it is apparent to me by their incredible growth and ability to stick to what's important even as they grow, that God's hand is steady on this church.
Keystone Church Keller, TX 6:00 pm Saturday 1/21/17 150 people
So Keystone Church was a last minute, Spirit inspired stop.
I had just left Gateway Church in Southlake and was headed elsewhere when the Holy Spirit prompted me to do another search on my phone. And there was Keystone Church, 13 minutes away with a service in about 35 minutes, at 6 pm.
I missed it the first time as I drove west on whatever Southlake Blvd turns into as it goes into Keller, but I circled back.
After being directed to regular parking, instead of turning my flashers on for 1st time visitor parking, I was greeted by three different people as I walked in and the first thing I saw was a "VIP" first time visitor set up. Going into the sanctuary and finding a seat, I saw that every seat had a first time visitor "VIP" info card on it. And the first thing I remember anyone saying from the stage was, "be sure to fill out your VIP cards".
So I was pretty sure I had just entered the home of a church growth specialist, so I was concerned whether the quality of the ministry would match the quality of the marketing.
After some well done congregational worship, with a great interlude where the female worship leader explained the importance of body language to worship, the presumed church growth specialist took to the stage.
I later learned that his name is Brandon Thomas, and, from the inner leaf of his book handed out at the VIP center, he has a Phd in church growth, I never before knew that there was such a thing.
He was one of the best preachers I've seen lately, and remember I go to 3-6 church services in a typical weekend. He uses a style of ostensibly presenting both sides of the argument and then proclaiming one the obvious winner.
He had the congregation chanting "In My Power" soon into the sermon and many probably knew what was coming- "In His Power". This could have been a great sermon with a great theme except that it does not appear that Pastor Brandon truly operates in His power.
For 2/3 of his enlightening and entertaining sermon, I was starting to think maybe Pastor Brandon does operate in God's power. Then he made it, by his own words, obvious that he does not, at least not in the full, completely life changing power of God.
I love that he strongly encourages note taking, so I was not alone in taking notes. But after some very good, and well explained material from Galatians, Pastor Brandon dropped a few nuclear bombs that, spiritually, blew everything up for me.
A direct quote from my notes, "When you become a Christ follower, he makes you new". Close to accurate, but not so. This is a common fallacy in today's Evangelical churches. Transformation does not happen immediately after a decision is made to follow Jesus, that is a process of sanctification, and it may take many years, if at all. A few moments later, Pastor Brandon, referring to the same concept, used the phrase "all of a sudden".
In my experience, after 25 years of calling on the name of Jesus, what does happen "all of a sudden" is that the Holy Spirit descends on you as it did to those in the upper room at Pentecost. It is only then that you are "born from above" which is the better translation of what Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:3. I have personally met only a few who testify to a similar experience, all after years of following Jesus.
By His grace, we can come to know His salvation and call on His name as a human decision. But only by Him, through the Holy Spirit, can we be born from above. Pastor Brandon's later comment that "you're never free from conflict" is another testimony that he, as skilled and committed to Jesus as he certainly seems to be, is not yet born from above.
For fully in Christ, my experience is that I am never in conflict and that I carry His peace that passes all understanding with me wherever I go. The day this occurred, all of a sudden, is by a huge factor the very best day of my life. It is the first real day of my life as before I was still in the death of sin, fighting a daily battle in the spiritual war that He has already won for all.
So my advice to Pastor Brandon is to keep on using your gifts of God to lead your up and coming church, while you carefully examine your own heart to see what you have not yet laid at the feet of Jesus, that he may find you approved in working out your salvation unto sanctification and give you His full power that he may build His church. I sometimes compare it to getting a promotion, but really it's having an entirely new life, in Him.
The power of Jesus is not turning it up to 11, it's like turning it up to 1100 or more. Nothing draws people like seeing Christ in you, as you have given all to make room in your heart for Christ. Suddenly things just continually happen all around you, building your faith even more as you realize how much power God has and that He wants to use it on your behalf in order that His Kingdom may come, on Earth as it is in Heaven.
Trey
I had just left Gateway Church in Southlake and was headed elsewhere when the Holy Spirit prompted me to do another search on my phone. And there was Keystone Church, 13 minutes away with a service in about 35 minutes, at 6 pm.
I missed it the first time as I drove west on whatever Southlake Blvd turns into as it goes into Keller, but I circled back.
After being directed to regular parking, instead of turning my flashers on for 1st time visitor parking, I was greeted by three different people as I walked in and the first thing I saw was a "VIP" first time visitor set up. Going into the sanctuary and finding a seat, I saw that every seat had a first time visitor "VIP" info card on it. And the first thing I remember anyone saying from the stage was, "be sure to fill out your VIP cards".
So I was pretty sure I had just entered the home of a church growth specialist, so I was concerned whether the quality of the ministry would match the quality of the marketing.
After some well done congregational worship, with a great interlude where the female worship leader explained the importance of body language to worship, the presumed church growth specialist took to the stage.
I later learned that his name is Brandon Thomas, and, from the inner leaf of his book handed out at the VIP center, he has a Phd in church growth, I never before knew that there was such a thing.
He was one of the best preachers I've seen lately, and remember I go to 3-6 church services in a typical weekend. He uses a style of ostensibly presenting both sides of the argument and then proclaiming one the obvious winner.
He had the congregation chanting "In My Power" soon into the sermon and many probably knew what was coming- "In His Power". This could have been a great sermon with a great theme except that it does not appear that Pastor Brandon truly operates in His power.
For 2/3 of his enlightening and entertaining sermon, I was starting to think maybe Pastor Brandon does operate in God's power. Then he made it, by his own words, obvious that he does not, at least not in the full, completely life changing power of God.
I love that he strongly encourages note taking, so I was not alone in taking notes. But after some very good, and well explained material from Galatians, Pastor Brandon dropped a few nuclear bombs that, spiritually, blew everything up for me.
A direct quote from my notes, "When you become a Christ follower, he makes you new". Close to accurate, but not so. This is a common fallacy in today's Evangelical churches. Transformation does not happen immediately after a decision is made to follow Jesus, that is a process of sanctification, and it may take many years, if at all. A few moments later, Pastor Brandon, referring to the same concept, used the phrase "all of a sudden".
In my experience, after 25 years of calling on the name of Jesus, what does happen "all of a sudden" is that the Holy Spirit descends on you as it did to those in the upper room at Pentecost. It is only then that you are "born from above" which is the better translation of what Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:3. I have personally met only a few who testify to a similar experience, all after years of following Jesus.
By His grace, we can come to know His salvation and call on His name as a human decision. But only by Him, through the Holy Spirit, can we be born from above. Pastor Brandon's later comment that "you're never free from conflict" is another testimony that he, as skilled and committed to Jesus as he certainly seems to be, is not yet born from above.
For fully in Christ, my experience is that I am never in conflict and that I carry His peace that passes all understanding with me wherever I go. The day this occurred, all of a sudden, is by a huge factor the very best day of my life. It is the first real day of my life as before I was still in the death of sin, fighting a daily battle in the spiritual war that He has already won for all.
So my advice to Pastor Brandon is to keep on using your gifts of God to lead your up and coming church, while you carefully examine your own heart to see what you have not yet laid at the feet of Jesus, that he may find you approved in working out your salvation unto sanctification and give you His full power that he may build His church. I sometimes compare it to getting a promotion, but really it's having an entirely new life, in Him.
The power of Jesus is not turning it up to 11, it's like turning it up to 1100 or more. Nothing draws people like seeing Christ in you, as you have given all to make room in your heart for Christ. Suddenly things just continually happen all around you, building your faith even more as you realize how much power God has and that He wants to use it on your behalf in order that His Kingdom may come, on Earth as it is in Heaven.
Trey
Atonement Theory, a pastor responds
This email was received on 1/21/17 at 10:44 am and prompted this post.
You also greatly misunderstood my approach to witnessing, and sharing about the need to have a "covering" before a holy God.
Anyway, thank you for the visit. If you wish to talk any further and clear up the misconceptions, give me a call.
Sincerely,
Robin
Dear Trey,
Thank you for visiting Adat Shalom last night. I'm saddened that you did not enjoy our service,but I understand that people are entitled to their own perspective. Unfortunately, your perspective has quite a few flaws. First of all, you have a distorted view of the true biblical meaning of atonement.
You also greatly misunderstood my approach to witnessing, and sharing about the need to have a "covering" before a holy God.
I, like you, have a strong belief that God is indeed love. But He also is holy and righteous, and we absolutely need to be forgiven and cleansed before Him or face eternal judgment. This is the biblical "apostolic" view of man's condition before God.
Anyway, thank you for the visit. If you wish to talk any further and clear up the misconceptions, give me a call.
Sincerely,
Robin
Robin David Rose, Congregational Leader
Adat Shalom Congregation - Dallas
And my reply/new post.
Thank you so much Pastor Robin, for being the first pastor to respond to a blog post. The desire here is to open a loving dialogue and more carefully examine each others perspectives in light of scripture, and to do it in a public forum for the benefit of all.
Please don't be saddened, as I did enjoy your service immensely, especially the Oneg, and meeting people then. You have a great group of God's people there who seem very hungry for the Word of God.
You state that I have a distorted view of the true Biblical meaning of atonement. The plain and ancient word atonement means "at one with". Scripture admonishes, in Matthew 5:37 and Ephesians 4:25, among others, to speak truthfully and plainly to one another. Atonement is a much abused word as there are numerous and perhaps conflicting "atonement theories".
From your sermon and response, it appears that you subscribe to the currently most fashionable and clearly wrong atonement theory, penal substitutionary atonement. This abomination before God is the idea that "Jesus died on the cross for our sins." and it pervades the modern church. Somehow Christianity thrived for 1500 years or so before this particular theory came on the scene in the Reformation.
I assert, via the testimony of the Spirit within me, and the confirmation in scripture, that atonement means atonement, or "at one with". All of Jesus' incarnation, birth, life, death, resurrection, and ascension was to be at unity with us, His people.
No theological theories needed as it is self evident in all of scripture, that Jesus came to show us how to live, die, and rise again in Him. Theology means "study of God" and what better way to study God than closely observe Jesus. That's why Jesus' primary application point was and is, "Follow me".
Your next point says that I greatly misunderstand your approach to witnessing. Your first and only statement that I remember being made on your personal witnessing was, "When I encounter a Jewish person, I immediately go to the judgment of God, and ask them if they have appropriate covering."
Being both ethnically Jewish (Ashkenazim) and a Messianic believer, I am familiar with the concept of covering. My objection is that you go to fear instead of love in attempting to bring another into closer relationship with Christ. You assert that the biblical "apostolic" view is that "we absolutely need to be forgiven and cleansed before Him or face eternal judgment" since God is not only love, but holy and righteous.
So I will return to our Savior Jesus, who said, in John 14:9, that "if you see me, you have seen the Father". Who that saw Jesus was forgiven and cleansed before Him? I would propose either all or none. When Jesus said, "it is finished" on the cross, and that was arguably God's plan before the creation of the world, all were and are forgiven and cleansed. But if instead of one for all, it is one for one, then we each have more work to do than we can ever do, for not one can stand before Him that created all and have any claim to righteousness. While all are saved, they are only saved by the One, Yeshua. (which I enjoy seeing as phonetic response to "I am" that "Yes you are")
Once again, Pastor Robin, I greatly appreciate your response and all you efforts in expanding God's Kingdom.
In His love,
Trey
Saturday, January 21, 2017
Wingmen Grapevine, TX 1/20/17 7:00 a.m. 120 men
Wingmen is a parachurch organization that is, to me, a real church, only just for men.
They meet at the Lancaster Theater in old downtown Grapevine, and there is a catered breakfast of huge mounds of bacon and eggs. I skipped the breakfast as I am trying to stay away from pork, as part of my whole "follow Jesus" effort.
It was started by Chad Hennings, who had a great career as a defensive lineman with the Dallas Cowboys. He hosts the every other week "corporate" event, while many of the men meet in "Element groups" on the off weeks. The corporate event seats about 120, and it appeared to be exactly full. I understand it is also simulcast and archived to be seen on the internet.
The speaker was Dudley Hall, who appears to me to be the default guy when they don't have a guest speaker. And he is a really good default guy. I first saw him about 15 years ago at an area church, and I have liked him ever since.
The concept that hit home with me was in his closing, that earth does not go up to heaven, but that heaven comes down to earth, just like it says in the Lord's Prayer.
One thing that I think we can all agree on is that heaven is populated by saints. So heaven coming down to earth means that earth is starting to be populated by saints. I have met some saints, and their lifestyle is best described as "Jesus like", no matter what the other attributes. They know their job is to equip others to be saints and to continue to disciple them, to turn the saved into the sanctified, completely and permanently filled with the Holy Spirit, born from above.
As these saints disciple other people who have called upon the name of the Lord, Jesus selects some of those as saints. And that's how we get the exponential progression that will lead from Jesus completely coming into some and Jesus eventually coming into all.
I tried to contribute a fairly large sum of money to Wingmen yesterday afternoon, but their online system didn't seem to want to take the money. It would not accept a four figure amount and when I adjusted down to a similar three figure amount, it crashed on the first try and then did not give a success landing page on the next. So I will wait to see on the credit card bill and, if the Lord leads, try again to give.
Wingmen gets into my category of favorite churches.
Trey
They meet at the Lancaster Theater in old downtown Grapevine, and there is a catered breakfast of huge mounds of bacon and eggs. I skipped the breakfast as I am trying to stay away from pork, as part of my whole "follow Jesus" effort.
It was started by Chad Hennings, who had a great career as a defensive lineman with the Dallas Cowboys. He hosts the every other week "corporate" event, while many of the men meet in "Element groups" on the off weeks. The corporate event seats about 120, and it appeared to be exactly full. I understand it is also simulcast and archived to be seen on the internet.
The speaker was Dudley Hall, who appears to me to be the default guy when they don't have a guest speaker. And he is a really good default guy. I first saw him about 15 years ago at an area church, and I have liked him ever since.
The concept that hit home with me was in his closing, that earth does not go up to heaven, but that heaven comes down to earth, just like it says in the Lord's Prayer.
One thing that I think we can all agree on is that heaven is populated by saints. So heaven coming down to earth means that earth is starting to be populated by saints. I have met some saints, and their lifestyle is best described as "Jesus like", no matter what the other attributes. They know their job is to equip others to be saints and to continue to disciple them, to turn the saved into the sanctified, completely and permanently filled with the Holy Spirit, born from above.
As these saints disciple other people who have called upon the name of the Lord, Jesus selects some of those as saints. And that's how we get the exponential progression that will lead from Jesus completely coming into some and Jesus eventually coming into all.
I tried to contribute a fairly large sum of money to Wingmen yesterday afternoon, but their online system didn't seem to want to take the money. It would not accept a four figure amount and when I adjusted down to a similar three figure amount, it crashed on the first try and then did not give a success landing page on the next. So I will wait to see on the credit card bill and, if the Lord leads, try again to give.
Wingmen gets into my category of favorite churches.
Trey
Adat Shalom Dallas, TX 1/20/17 7:30 pm 60 people
A dialogue was started with this post, please see new post, "Atonement Theory, a pastor responds"
To the pastor and people of Adat Shalom.
Thank you for graciously welcoming me into the Shabbat service yesterday evening. Your service may be a large part of the inspiration to start this blog.
What was right about it, the people. What was wrong, a lot of everything else.
I visited after a long day, so please grant me grace in that I may have been in a less than ideal state of mind while there. I struggled to stay awake during Pastor Robin's sermon.
But a few things he said snapped me to attention, as he did push a few of my hot buttons.
I thought it was great that he recognized me as a visitor and we chatted before the service began and I truly commend him for that. But then I was a bit horrified when he went to the podium and started calling out the visitors by name. While it didn't bother me personally at all now, I can think of a day, many years ago, when I would have been very uncomfortable with that. I cannot imagine Jesus doing that, especially here on Earth, where He operated in the same limited knowledge as all of us, with a combination of His own worldly knowledge and what was available to Him through the Holy Spirit.
The next shock came when the musical worship time was conducted without asking the congregation to stand up. Now a few people did, but the congregation did not have the exuberance and enthusiasm that I usually encounter in Messianic churches, so that was a disappointment.
The worship leader was named Kira, please forgive me if the spelling is wrong, and she led 3-4 songs that all included the word "Hallelujah" a whole lot. She led from her seat behind the keyboard while the Pastor's grown son accompanied on the cajon.
Then after a bit of traditional prayer and ceremony that you would expect to find in a Messianic service, including facing east to proclaim the Shema in both Hebrew and English, Pastor Robin rose to speak.
In speaking, He revealed the usual errors found in many Messianic and Evangelical churches. They apparently subscribe to the substitutionary penal atonement theory of Jesus' death on the cross, and that is as damaging here as it is everywhere else.
You see, atonement, like most words, stands on it's own. It means what it means and needs no modifiers. It means at-one-ment. From Wikipedia, my favorite secular source: The English word 'atonement' originally meant "at-one-ment", i.e. being "at one", in harmony, with someone.
Well, atonement still means what it says. Atonement is the reason for the incarnation, life, rejection, suffering, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus. No modifiers necessary, He came that we might live, in Him. One of my favorite books that explains this well is The Shack Revisited: There Is More Going On Here than You Ever Dared to Dream by Baxter Kruger.
So this is an almost universally common theological error, as penal atonement is baked into most modern church theologies to the point where even non-believers are very familiar with the phrase, "Jesus died on the cross for our sins".
Jesus came to show us the Way, His Way. He had a humble birth, a humble life, and and an excruciatingly painful death. He did not spare Himself anything that we can experience here. He is at one with us because He was faithful to be like us in every way but sin.
Because God, self evident in the Holy Trinity, is all about relationship. We can have a strong relationship with Jesus because He can truly relate to us, He has experienced our life and struggles as well as any one man can do.
But the biggest criticism, I have for Pastor Robin (and he seems like we could become good friends if circumstances permit) is his approach to others with the good news that is the Gospel.
His sermon was about missional living, a great and necessary topic. But he said that his personal approach is one of fear, to warn those who do not call upon the name of Jesus of impending doom, that they must be covered by Jesus in order to face judgement.
This is abhorrent to me. Our God is One, and He loves all people all the time, just as the Father and Son are forever in one another through the Holy Spirit. So to open a conver-sation (see the convert in there) with a fear based appeal is to do exactly the wrong thing. Jesus came as ultimate Love, so our duty is to spread His Love, not fear.
There were other theology problems as well, particularly Robin telling the congregation that we are all "ambassadors of Christ". How is someone who just called on the name of Jesus suddenly an ambassador the next day? Read all of 2 Corinthians for yourself and see if you can discover the answer to that riddle and then come back and comment.
After service there was a very nice buffet, and, being very hungry, I partook. There seemed to be about 50 people at the service with the age skewing a bit older and quite a few more women than men. There was a fair amount of ethnic diversity, which I feel is always good to see, since we are all one in the Lord.
I did not put any money in the Tzedakah Box, which is unusual for me, as my desire is always to be generous with all that God has given me. I was frankly baffled as to why this church, with so many wonderful people, left me not feeling the love and hearing words from Christ.
Trey
To the pastor and people of Adat Shalom.
Thank you for graciously welcoming me into the Shabbat service yesterday evening. Your service may be a large part of the inspiration to start this blog.
What was right about it, the people. What was wrong, a lot of everything else.
I visited after a long day, so please grant me grace in that I may have been in a less than ideal state of mind while there. I struggled to stay awake during Pastor Robin's sermon.
But a few things he said snapped me to attention, as he did push a few of my hot buttons.
I thought it was great that he recognized me as a visitor and we chatted before the service began and I truly commend him for that. But then I was a bit horrified when he went to the podium and started calling out the visitors by name. While it didn't bother me personally at all now, I can think of a day, many years ago, when I would have been very uncomfortable with that. I cannot imagine Jesus doing that, especially here on Earth, where He operated in the same limited knowledge as all of us, with a combination of His own worldly knowledge and what was available to Him through the Holy Spirit.
The next shock came when the musical worship time was conducted without asking the congregation to stand up. Now a few people did, but the congregation did not have the exuberance and enthusiasm that I usually encounter in Messianic churches, so that was a disappointment.
The worship leader was named Kira, please forgive me if the spelling is wrong, and she led 3-4 songs that all included the word "Hallelujah" a whole lot. She led from her seat behind the keyboard while the Pastor's grown son accompanied on the cajon.
Then after a bit of traditional prayer and ceremony that you would expect to find in a Messianic service, including facing east to proclaim the Shema in both Hebrew and English, Pastor Robin rose to speak.
In speaking, He revealed the usual errors found in many Messianic and Evangelical churches. They apparently subscribe to the substitutionary penal atonement theory of Jesus' death on the cross, and that is as damaging here as it is everywhere else.
You see, atonement, like most words, stands on it's own. It means what it means and needs no modifiers. It means at-one-ment. From Wikipedia, my favorite secular source: The English word 'atonement' originally meant "at-one-ment", i.e. being "at one", in harmony, with someone.
Well, atonement still means what it says. Atonement is the reason for the incarnation, life, rejection, suffering, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus. No modifiers necessary, He came that we might live, in Him. One of my favorite books that explains this well is The Shack Revisited: There Is More Going On Here than You Ever Dared to Dream by Baxter Kruger.
So this is an almost universally common theological error, as penal atonement is baked into most modern church theologies to the point where even non-believers are very familiar with the phrase, "Jesus died on the cross for our sins".
Jesus came to show us the Way, His Way. He had a humble birth, a humble life, and and an excruciatingly painful death. He did not spare Himself anything that we can experience here. He is at one with us because He was faithful to be like us in every way but sin.
Because God, self evident in the Holy Trinity, is all about relationship. We can have a strong relationship with Jesus because He can truly relate to us, He has experienced our life and struggles as well as any one man can do.
But the biggest criticism, I have for Pastor Robin (and he seems like we could become good friends if circumstances permit) is his approach to others with the good news that is the Gospel.
His sermon was about missional living, a great and necessary topic. But he said that his personal approach is one of fear, to warn those who do not call upon the name of Jesus of impending doom, that they must be covered by Jesus in order to face judgement.
This is abhorrent to me. Our God is One, and He loves all people all the time, just as the Father and Son are forever in one another through the Holy Spirit. So to open a conver-sation (see the convert in there) with a fear based appeal is to do exactly the wrong thing. Jesus came as ultimate Love, so our duty is to spread His Love, not fear.
There were other theology problems as well, particularly Robin telling the congregation that we are all "ambassadors of Christ". How is someone who just called on the name of Jesus suddenly an ambassador the next day? Read all of 2 Corinthians for yourself and see if you can discover the answer to that riddle and then come back and comment.
After service there was a very nice buffet, and, being very hungry, I partook. There seemed to be about 50 people at the service with the age skewing a bit older and quite a few more women than men. There was a fair amount of ethnic diversity, which I feel is always good to see, since we are all one in the Lord.
I did not put any money in the Tzedakah Box, which is unusual for me, as my desire is always to be generous with all that God has given me. I was frankly baffled as to why this church, with so many wonderful people, left me not feeling the love and hearing words from Christ.
Trey
Chick Fil A Irving, TX 7:30 am Saturday 1/21/17
One of my favorite churches!
Chick Fil A falls under my admittedly loose definition of church, as an institution that calls on the name of Jesus. But it does a vastly better job than most churches.
I encountered this beautiful pre-sunrise on the way there. The cell phone picture does not begin to do it justice.
So if you've been there you likely know. Great atmosphere, great service, and very good food.
This Chick Fil A has attractive but plastic flowers on every table, a nice touch that I really appreciate.
I have started eating breakfasts there because they have a delicious chicken, egg, and cheese on a bagel, and I am trying to follow Jesus when it comes to eating choices by at least avoiding pork except when it is served to me by others.
Chick Fil A falls under my admittedly loose definition of church, as an institution that calls on the name of Jesus. But it does a vastly better job than most churches.
I encountered this beautiful pre-sunrise on the way there. The cell phone picture does not begin to do it justice.
So if you've been there you likely know. Great atmosphere, great service, and very good food.
This Chick Fil A has attractive but plastic flowers on every table, a nice touch that I really appreciate.
I have started eating breakfasts there because they have a delicious chicken, egg, and cheese on a bagel, and I am trying to follow Jesus when it comes to eating choices by at least avoiding pork except when it is served to me by others.
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